The New York Times - November 1, 1985
Maurice Carroll

"They ought to tear up your law license if you say you can't do this without a cop," the Governor said.

He spoke a day after Mayor Koch first lamented that the rules were so "inadequate" that they defied immediate enforcement, and then -after a telephone conversation with the Governor - said the city had begun enforcing them.

But Mr. Cuomo, questioned by reporters in his office in the World Trade Center, would not pick a fight with Mr. Koch or say if he had made any threats.

"He called up and said, 'Governor, we're going to enforce it.' And I said: 'That's fine, Ed. That's what I thought.' "

Mr. Cuomo announced last week that, to curb the spread of AIDS, health rules would be changed to let local governments close bathhouses and other places where "high risk" sex - anal or oral intercourse - took place. The disease, acquired immune deficiency syndrome, primarily affects homosexuals and intravenous drug abusers.

Mayor Koch called the rules hard to enforce.

The Governor disagreed. Reporters have written about what happens in bathhouses, he said yesterday, former patrons have volunteered to testify and proprietors can be made to testify.

"Call in the manager and ask him a question, 'What goes on there?' " the Governor said. "And tell him: 'Now, you can lie to me. But, remember, I'll get you for perjury.' "

The Governor, who said several times that he wished the reporters would ask about something else, gave an exasperated lecture when asked if forcing testimony would not violate the Fifth Amendment.

"There's no Fifth Amendment," he said. "Self-incrimination deals with a crime. This is a health regulation."

He declined to talk about the Mayor's shifts on Wednesday.

That morning Mr. Koch spoke about problems in enforcing the new rules. In early afternoon he said enforcement guidelines would be completed in two days. In late afternoon he said they were already being enforced. Along the way, he and Mr. Cuomo talked.

Yesterday Mr. Cuomo said he was "absolutely" satisfied with the Mayor's final stand. "He's totally committed."

The Governor would not say where enforcement had started, explaining that he would not tip off targets of an investigation.

Someone asked if health inspectors might be reluctant to enter places like bathhouses.

They might, the Governor said, but such inspections are part of their job. "If they don't want to do it, they should consider getting a job as poultry inspectors," he said.

He said he disliked talking about the subject himself. "That's part of the job I don't particularly like," he said. "But it's the job."

Aides to Mayor Koch said the city sent inspectors from the Department of Consumer Affairs into some bathhouses yesterday to gather evidence for closing down those places where unsafe sex was found to take place and to sustain court challenges from owners of establishments that were closed.

In addition, state officials offered to provide the city with some state employees to help enforce the rules. Officials said a total of three state inspectors would be involved in the enforcement effort.

851101
NYT851102