Washington Blade - October 8, 2004
Chris Crain, ccrain@washblade.com.

Moderator Gwen Ifill of PBS asked Vice President Dick Cheney to square the Bush administration's support of a federal constitutional ban on gay marriage with his own statement, in the vice presidential debate four years ago, that "freedom is freedom for everybody."

Without discussing directly his statement at a campaign stop last month that he opposed the Federal Marriage Amendment, Cheney said the Massachusetts Supreme Court decision, and the issuance of marriage licenses by the city of San Francisco, had forced the president's hand.

"The fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned. Now, he sets policy for this administration and I support the president."

The Democratic candidate for vice president, North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, responded by praising Cheney and his wife for accepting their daughter Mary, who is gay and who actually runs the vice president's campaign operation.

"I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing. And there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who want their children to be happy."

Cheney appeared to stiffen at Edwards' remarks during the debate, which was by far the most public forum in which the vice president's lesbian daughter had been discussed. But it was Edwards who repeatedly indicated that he and his running mate, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, "believe that marriage is between a man and a woman." He did not offer any further explanation for the position.

Edwards made clear his opposition to a federal constitutional ban on gay marriage, as unnecessary and as a politically driven effort to divide the country.

Ifill, the moderator, asked Edwards to explain why he and Kerry oppose a federal amendment banning gay marriage and yet also oppose the issuance of marriage licenses in Massachusetts.

"Are you trying to have it both ways?" she asked.

Edwards insisted their positions were consistent and that he and Kerry support benefits for long-term gay relationships, citing hospital visitation and funeral arrangements in particular. He reiterated that an amendment to the federal Constitution was "completely unnecessary" because "under the law of this country for the last 200 years, no state has been required to recognize another state's marriage."

The Constitution's "full faith and credit clause," which generally requires states to recognize the laws and decisions of other states, has not been tested on marriage licenses issued by Massachusetts to gay couples. The courts have recognized a limited exception to the clause when one state's "public policy" would be contravened by recognizing the other state's decisions, but that application has not been made to gay married couples.

Edwards did, however, hone in what he saw as the divisive political motivation behind President Bush's support for the Federal Marriage Amendment.

"There is absolutely no purpose in the law and in reality for this amendment. It's nothing but a political tool. And it's being used in an effort to divide this country on an issue that we should not be dividing America on. We ought to be talking about issues like health care and jobs and what's happening in Iraq. Not using an issue that divides this country in a way that's solely for political purposes. It's wrong."

Offered 90 seconds to respond, Cheney passed.

"Well Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter," the vice president said. "I appreciate that very much."

"That's it?" Ifill asked.

"That's it," Cheney said.

Candidates dodge AIDS question

The candidates were also asked about the rising rates of HIV among black women in the U.S. Though cautioned not to discuss global AIDS in response, the vice president did just that, acknowledging that he was unaware of the statistic, cited by Ifill, that black women were 13 times more likely than other Americans to die of AIDS.

Cheney sounded unintentionally callous as he discussed how entire generations have been wiped out by the epidemic in some parts of the world, citing only the economic impact of their deaths.

"All that's left is old folks and kids," he said. "Nobody to do the basic work that runs an economy."

He insisted the Bush administration had made "significant progress" in the fight against HIV domestically, but made only vague reference to funding for drug research, education and public awareness.

Edwards discussed the AIDS problem in Africa and then limited his comments on the domestic fight against the disease to a general discussion on health care. He never specifically addressed Ifill's question about rising HIV rates among African-American women.

"Vice President Cheney's ignorance about the HIV/AIDS crisis is inexcusable," Cheryl Jacques, president of the Human Rights Campaign, said in a statement. "When asked about the effect this epidemic is having on Americans - especially communities of color - he said he was unaware of the problem."

Mary Cheney, partner join family on stage

At the end of the 98-minute encounter, both candidates were joined on stage by their families. Notably present this time, unlike at the GOP convention last month, was Mary Cheney. She was joined by her partner, Heather Poe.

Most post-debate polls declared the event a draw, with neither candidate scoring a decisive victory. But gay conservative writer Andrew Sullivan, on his blog, lauded Edwards' performance and noted that Cheney, "cannot disguise that he supports a president who would remove any legal protections for his own daughter's relationship."

Not all the spin doctors shared Sullivan's view. Mickey Kaus, of the popular kausfiles blog, described Edwards' comments on Cheney's gay daughter as, "a cynical, premeditated appeal to prejudice."

Meanwhile, the New York Times, in a Wednesday editorial, called the exchange over gay marriage, "one of the most poignant moments in the evening."

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Excerpts from Tuesday's vice presidential debate

MODERATOR GWEN IFILL: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family's experience as a context for your remarks.

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?

VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: Gwen, you're right, four years ago in this debate, the subject came up. And I said then and I believe today that freedom does mean freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business.

That's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve or give some sort of authorization, if you will, to these relationships.

Traditionally, that's been an issue for the states. States have regulated marriage, if you will. That would be my preference.

In effect, what's happened is that in recent months, especially in Massachusetts, but also in California, but in Massachusetts we had the Massachusetts Supreme Court direct the state of - the legislature of Massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage.

And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.

Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.

IFILL: Senator Edwards, 90 seconds.

SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS: ... let me say first that I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing. And there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who want their children to be happy.

And I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and so does John Kerry.

I also believe that there should be partnership benefits for gay and lesbian couples in long-term, committed relationships. But we should not use the Constitution to divide this country.

No state for the last 200 years has ever had to recognize another state's marriage.

This is using the Constitution as a political tool, and it's wrong.

IFILL: New question, but same subject.

As the vice president mentioned, John Kerry comes from the state of Massachusetts, which has taken as big a step as any state in the union to legalize gay marriage. Yet both you and Senator Kerry say you oppose it.

Are you trying to have it both ways?

EDWARDS: No. I think we've both said the same thing all along.

We both believe that - and this goes onto the end of what I just talked about - we both believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

But we also believe that gay and lesbians and gay and lesbian couples, those who have been in long-term relationships, deserve to be treated respectfully, they deserve to have benefits.

For example, a gay couple now has a very difficult time, one, visiting the other when they're in the hospital, or, for example, if, heaven forbid, one of them were to pass away, they have trouble even arranging the funeral.

I mean, those are not the kind of things that John Kerry and I believe in. I suspect the vice president himself does not believe in that.

But we don't - we do believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. And I want to go back, if I can, to the question you just asked, which is this constitutional amendment.

I want to make sure people understand that the president is proposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage that is completely unnecessary.

Under the law of this country for the last 200 years, no state has been required to recognize another state's marriage. Let me just be simple about this. My state of North Carolina would not be required to recognize a marriage from Massachusetts, which you just asked about.

There is absolutely no purpose in the law and in reality for this amendment. It's nothing but a political tool. And it's being used in an effort to divide this country on an issue that we should not be dividing America on.

We ought to be talking about issues like health care and jobs and what's happening in Iraq, not using an issue to divide this country in a way that's solely for political purposes. It's wrong.

IFILL: Mr. Vice President, you have 90 seconds.

CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

IFILL: That's it?

CHENEY: That's it.

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IFILL: I will talk to you about health care, Mr. Vice President. You have two minutes. But in particular, I want to talk to you about AIDS, and not about AIDS in China or Africa, but AIDS right here in this country, where black women between the ages of 25 and 44 are 13 times more likely to die of the disease than their counterparts.

What should the government's role be in helping to end the growth of this epidemic?

CHENEY: Well, this is a great tragedy, Gwen, when you think about the enormous cost here in the United States and around the world of the AIDS epidemic - pandemic, really. Millions of lives lost, millions more infected and facing a very bleak future.

In some parts of the world, we've got the entire, sort of, productive generation has been eliminated as a result of AIDS, all except for old folks and kids - nobody to do the basic work that runs an economy.

The president has been deeply concerned about it. He has moved and proposed and gotten through the Congress authorization for $15 billion to help in the international effort, to be targeted in those places where we need to do everything we can, through a combination of education as well as providing the kinds of medicines that will help people control the infection.

Here in the United States, we've made significant progress. I have not heard those numbers with respect to African-American women. I was not aware that it was - that they're in epidemic there, because we have made progress in terms of the overall rate of AIDS infection, and I think primarily through a combination of education and public awareness as well as the development, as a result of research, of drugs that allow people to live longer lives even though they are infected - obviously we need to do more of that.

IFILL: Senator Edwards, you have 90 seconds.

EDWARDS: Well, first, with respect to what's happening in Africa and Russia and in other places around the world, the vice president spoke about the $15 billion for AIDS. John Kerry and I believe that needs to be doubled.

And I might add, on the first year of their commitment, they came up significantly short of what they had promised.

And we probably won't get a chance to talk about Africa. Let me just say a couple of things.

The AIDS epidemic in Africa, which is killing millions and millions of people and is a frightening thing not just for the people of Africa but also for the rest of the world, that, combined with the genocide that we're now seeing in Sudan, are two huge moral issues for the United States of America, which John Kerry spoke about eloquently last Thursday night.

Here at home we need to do much more. And the vice president spoke about doing research, making sure we have the drugs available, making sure that we do everything possible to have prevention. But it's a bigger question than that.

You know, we have 5 million Americans who've lost their health care coverage in the last four years; 45 million Americans without health care coverage. We have children who don't have health care coverage.

If kids and adults don't have access to preventative care, if they're not getting the health care that they need day after day after day, the possibility of not only developing AIDS and having a problem - having a problem - a life-threatening problem, but the problem of developing other life-threatening diseases is there every day of their lives.

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